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Listen to May's main episode of the RAH! podcast on Homelessness and Spice.
Image credit: English: Lance Cpl. Damany S. Coleman / Public domain. Available here: commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:USMC…-3762C-001.jpg
This episode will explore the complex problem of homelessness and drug use in the community, in particular we will discuss:
FEATURING:
Rob Ralphs and Paul Gray about emerging drug trends on the streets and the importance of a cross-disciplinary response when tackling such a complex issue.
Simone Newman from DePaul UK will speak to Rob Ralphs about some of the challenges in working with young people affected by homelessness.
Aisla Cuthill from the Big Change Society at Manchester Met about how their work and how students can help.
Read along while you listen! Find the full episode transcript below.
Disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in the RAH! Podcast belong solely to the speaker, and are not necessarily reflective of the views of Manchester Metropolitan University, or to the speaker's employer, organization, committee or other group or individual.
Lucy Simpson: Hello there. Just a quick note that this episode was recorded before the current global situation regarding COVID-19. All information was applicable at the time of recording. We will be recording a follow up episode soon addressing the effects of COVID-19 on homeless drug users. So keep an eye out for that. On with the show.
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Matt Foley: Hello and welcome to the RAH! podcast at Manchester Metropolitan University. My name is Matt Foley. This episode will explore the complex problem of homelessness and in particular, we will discuss issues effecting the community such as socio economic inequalities, drug use, and the pressures on accommodation providers. We will also consider how an interdisciplinary response can begin to solve some of these issues and bring about long term change.
Coming up, I'll speak to Rob Ralphs Rouse and Paul Gray about emerging drug trends on the streets and the importance of a cross disciplinary response when tackling such a complex issue.
Paul Gray: Even if the substances change, I think it will still necessitate that kind of awareness actually, in the vulnerabilities and the complexities of the needs of those who are homeless or have a street based lifestyle.
Matt Foley: Next Simone Newman from DePaul UK will speak to Rob Ralphs about some of the challenges in working with young people affected by homelessness.
Simone Newman: DePaul is predominantly a youth homeless charity. We work with young people who are homeless or insecurely housed, we have a lot of support accommodation services.
Matt Foley: Finally, I'll speak to Ailsa Cuthill from the Big Change Society at Manchester Met about their work and how students can help.
Ailsa Cuthill: The main idea behind the talks is to kind of get rid of those misconceptions about homelessness where everyone's like ‘they’re all drug addicts alcoholics, this is why they're on the street’, but actually it could happen to anyone.
Matt: You can join a conversation on Twitter by hashtagging #RAH_Podcast.
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Matt: Well, I'm delighted to be joined by Paul Gray and Rob Ralphs who are senior lecturers in the department of sociology and criminology at Manchester Met. And they're both here to discuss homelessness, but also the complexities and social issues that shape homelessness itself. Rob, if I can start with you, could you say a little bit about some of the research that you've done into psychoactive substances and how this feeds into issues around homelessness, particularly maybe in Manchester?
Rob: I think, you know, in recent years has been a lot of concern of what people refer to generically as legal highs and more recently as new psychoactive substances. Going on about what's generically referred to as spice, which is a kind of general term for literally hundreds of synthetic cannabinoids. We were contacted by Manchester City Council, and they asked us to establish exactly what the kind of legal highs and new psychoactive substances were being used in Manchester. And we were kind of directed to particular, if you'd like, subpopulations, so where you would expect, you know, high levels of substance use, and again, you know, kind of homeless city centre, rough sleepers and homeless community living in a range of supported accommodation.
Paul Gray: I mean, we'd spoken to practitioners and service - service delivers and they're told us that they were concerned about levels of NPS, psychoactive substance use in these particular subgroups. And was looking at a range of NPS it wasn't just the synthetic cannabinoids or spice, it was looking at synthetic stimulants and nitrous oxide and other substances. But then we found out that actually, it was primarily the main problem in Manchester seem to be the use of spice amongst - amongst homeless, the homeless population in the city.
Matt: Could you say a little bit about perhaps how your research has - has - has changed over the last five years? This is a changing situation a developing situation all the time
Rob: At the end of May 2016, the 2016 psychoactive substances act came in. Which in effect aimed to close down the city centre, High Street shops and so called head shops that were selling what were then known as legal highs. But because the demand was already there, the market was established, it was - it wasn't going to get rid of that market, it was simply going to go on to the street market. So the same street dealers who would be selling kind of cannabis or heroin or crack cocaine would now be selling the so called spice. And again, we said, you know, really what we need to do is do a kind of follow up piece of research, which specifically looks at the impact of the change in legislation on the - on the availability, the purity, the price, and what impact that has on some of these kind of vulnerable user groups. And I think as we predicted, it was still going to remain. We began that follow on research in the January 2017. And soon after that in the March and April, I think in Manchester, when we're seeing all the kind of headlines around spice zombies and walking dead linked to the fact that the purity that's on the street was much more variable. And there's some kind of stronger batches which lead to more kind of extreme reactions amongst users. It's a challenge for lots of local authority areas now. This problem of people in the city centre, especially it's more visible which substances like spice and the problem of begging. Obviously they’re very kind of vulnerable groups and - and if local authorities and police kind of clamped down on that in too kind of a heavy handed way, then the public don't like that. But at the same time, local authorities and the police will regularly receive complaints about the problems caused by maybe aggressive begging or the impacts of substance use, whether that spice, or people injecting drugs or drug related litter in city centres. So I think it’s a national challenge. And I think you know, one of the things that interests me with that type of work is if you can kind of establish a good model in Manchester and kind of Greater Manchester then can be rolled out nationally.
Matt: If you were to speculate where do you think those research studies in the future will be will be going? What will they focus on? Will it be more, again, about joined up thinking across different stakeholders?
Rob: Homelessness you know is complex - complex users with complex needs and that cuts across you know mental health, substance use dependency, as well as kind of housing needs, and you know, quite often kind of offending history. So, you know, you can’t just look at that in isolation. You can’t just see as a housing issue or a mental health issue or substance use issue or offending issue. So I think, you know, those kind of complex needs require kind of an interdisciplinary solutions, that kind of multi-agency joined up policy and practice as well.
Paul: I think if you want a more effective response, it does need to be more multi agency holistic interdisciplinary. So I think going forwards even if the substances change, and in years to come, it might not be synthetic cannabinoids or spice, I think it was so still necessitate that kind of awareness, actually and the vulnerabilities and the complexities of the particular - of the needs of those who are homeless or have a street based lifestyle.
Matt: And - And do you think that the- the desire the ambition to radically reduce homelessness and Manchester that's been expressed by - by local authority is that achievable and what type of timescale do you think those aims could be, could be met?
Rob: And the original timescale of that 2020 -
Paul: It was 2020, yeah.
Rob: - was really not realistic. Spice became popular amongst this kind of sub population, because it's a bit of a grey area. I think that's changed completely now where most housing providers will not allow somebody who's using spice because of the problems it causes. But with a change in policy now, it's a class B substance. So do you allow somebody to smoke outside in the communal smoking area? Or do you say, you know, “it's a Class B drug, you can’t do that” and then you’re kind of pushing people into places like the city centre, where people can smoke these drugs more openly. And then of course, you’ve got the vulnerable user group becoming more vulnerable because of the - they get intoxicated and they get in this kind of catatonic state, you know, risk in terms of robbery, you know, walking in front of a tram or something. So there's that kind of tension, you know, in terms of looking after that vulnerable group. Do you send them into the city centre, or do you try to turn a blind eye? So it's about looking at some of those challenges and how some of those housing – housing policies is almost kind of forcing that population into city centres and public spaces to use.
Paul: A large portion of people you see on the streets in Manchester aren't typically street homeless. They are those who have a street based lifestyle, where they come in, or their supportive accommodation doesn't allow the substance use. So it's that tricky balance of actually, maybe a tiny bit of enforcement with that population. And then actually you’re left with just the proper high risk group that has multiple needs, and that may be trying to respond to them. But, I mean, certainly we found in some of our earlier studies that there was - it was very hard for treatment providers and housing providers to engage homeless people into services. Because there was nothing that those providers could actually offer. There wasn't a substitute substance, you know, for spice dependency. And I think that's the challenge - would be the challenge for Andy Burnham; trying to engage with that very, very vulnerable group and trying to somehow maybe ‘force’ - in inverted commas - force them in to some kind of engagement with treatment providers and accommodation providers and other service providers, mental health providers, and not to kind of conflate those with a street based lifestyle and who are coming into Manchester with those who are properly street homeless in Manchester.
Matt: The public quite often do their best to help people they see - see sleeping rough in various ways. Is there anything that they can do is if they see anyone in distress or anyone sleeping rough? Is there any acts of kindness that help in these situations?
Paul: If you talk to a lot of supported accommodation providers, they almost in a perverse way, say, you know, if you - if you see someone begging on the street, if - if you give them money, you're not helping that person. As potentially, you're taking away the driver that would make them engage with those services that are there to support them. And there's a move now, certainly, if you're wanting to kind of give change to homeless on the street, actually make donations, financial donations, or donate your time to a wider Manchester-wide initiative to support them. So yeah, it's kind of counterintuitive in a way, because you're saying actually, by supporting them on the streets in terms of giving them money, you're removing that driver that might make people go in and engage with treatment providers and service providers. So yeah, it's a very, very tricky balance.
Rob: Yeah. And just following on from that, as Paul's talking about the Big Change Project, a lot of that campaign has been focused on ‘if you give money to somebody who's begging you’re in effect, you know, funding drug dealers, you’re supporting a drug and alcohol dependency’. Are obviously the Big Change project does lots of good and there's a place for that. But if you've got somebody who's alcohol dependent, heroin dependent or, you know, whether it's so called spice, if they are kind of begging to fund a drug habit, then you know, it's really naive to think ‘if I don't give them a couple of pounds, now, they're not going to use drugs today’. They're going to use drugs, because they got substance use dependency. The longer they go without those substances, the more desperate they're gonna get. That’s only going to push them into some form of criminality, it might be shoplifting, it might be kind of street robbery, car theft, or in some cases, you know, sex work. And so, you're almost kind of pushing somebody into criminality, or more kind of vulnerability. That needs to be to be acknowledged, really.
Paul: And we found that actually spice led to higher levels of dependency than a lot of the class A use. And so you're left with a kind of vulnerable group who might have replaced heroin use crack cocaine use alcohol use, just with spice use. And some of the research we did years ago, people in the homeless community were talking about actually how the spice dependency had almost broken down traditional bonds within the homeless community where they watch out for each other and people were concerned about getting robbed by people they slept next to. There was sexual exploitation. So yeah, I think their heart's in the right place, in terms of Big Change. Yeah, this idea that actually if you don't fund substance use, the beggars won't use it, I think is naive definitely.
Matt: Okay. Well, it's certainly a complex issue. Thanks so much for your time.
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Matt: Next up, Rob Ralphs returns to speak to Simone Newman from DePaul UK.
Simone: I'm Simone Newman and I'm the area director for DePaul UK. DePaul is predominantly a youth homeless charity. We work with young people who are homeless or insecurely housed. We have a lot of support accommodation services. And I guess we came in contact with you Rob, just in terms of your work, looking at NPS as it was and then moving forward into spice. We had quite an issue with a lot of the people in our accommodation using spice and we struggled, I think, to understand what we're dealing with.
Rob: So the first piece of research we were involved in was in early kind of 2016. And can you kind of think back and say a little bit about what the situation was then?
Simone: As a youth organisation, especially in accommodation services, we're always used to young people experimenting and using different drugs on site. And obviously, our role as a support team, I suppose, is to try and support young people not to use substances, get them professional help when they need to. But essentially, it's around kind of harm minimization and supporting them to understand what they're putting into their bodies and the effect that that has on them. But I think when we first started seeing NPS it was just such a massive difference, I suppose to other drugs that we were probably more used to in terms of cannabis, the odd bit of cocaine, speed, ecstasy. And I think it just kind of hit everyone like,” Oh my god, what? What are these kids taking – what - What are these effects that we're seeing?” Because it was just such a - such a kind of shocker really, just in terms of different behaviour that they were displaying, and the readiness and the availability. And at the time, I think the cheapness of the NPS was just quite a scary, scary thing,
Rob: One of the things we proposed was a specific training. As you say, it was new substances and a whole range of reactions and kind of quite different traditional drugs.
Simone: Yeah, I think that was kind of a bit of a lightbulb moment, I think. And it was really useful in terms of being able to understand the differences between NPS and - and the usual drugs that we were seeing. And I think it was really useful in allowing us to kind of work out “right, okay, we've got this issue, it's not going away. How do we as a team and as an organisation, how do we kind of deal with that?”. So we were able to try and create our own training that we supported staff teams to work with. Because, you know, I think the - the difficulty that we found it was just it was a kind of constant battle, 24/7. It wasn't just you know, within certain hours. It was staff having to deal with this - the, you know, the extremes I suppose all times of day and night and it was just kind of wearing and constant. But having that knowledge and understanding of, you know, a little bit more - more about what the drugs were and how they're made and the effects and what we could expect was just really useful I think in trying to deal with staff expectation about what we could do.
Rob: The original research ended in June 2016, which was just a couple of weeks after the Psychoactive Substances Act came in.
Simone: Yeah of course.
Rob: The follow up research that we proposed was specifically looking at the impact that the psychoactive substance act would have on markets and availability and things like strength, etc. and was particularly focused on the homeless and supportive accommodations sector.
Simone: So when the act came in, I think we all kind of thought, “great, that's gonna really sort things out, you know, things will change”. But I think what we saw was kind of, it went like you say, onto the streets, a bit underground. And then it was almost as if everything sort of changed again, for the worst. There was things around different strengths or different reactions I suppose. Again we would call out emergency services and people just wouldn't know kind of how to deal with it really. Or we’d have young people who are saying, "I'm really hooked on this and I can't get off it what do I do?” and the services just weren't there to try and support that really. So it was really useful I think then to be able to liaise with you guys. That really made a difference I think.
Rob: Specific challenges around the synthetic cannabinoids that we identified there, so concerns about staff passive inhalation. You know, spice was no longer so called legal high, now it was a banned substance and a class B substance. If somebody who's actually found using on premises, then technically, you know, there's concerns that that could be evicted. Or zero tolerance policies.
Simone: I mean, again, that was really useful. We obviously had to create quite a lot of risk assessments around passive inhalation of spice because staff were obviously going into people's rooms to do kind of welfare checks and stsff would report then feeling unwell as a result of the inhalations. We've always tried to work in quite holistic view and obviously we can't condone the use of drugs on the premises and things like that. But it was very much a supportive environment in terms of trying to get young people to understand what they were - what they were doing, and the dangers of what they were doing and what they were putting into their systems and to be able to then kind of say, “you are, you know, putting your accommodation at risk, we’re not gonna ask you to leave, but, you know, you need to do certain things that that mean, you can stay here and we're not kind of breaking the law”. Really.
Rob: How important do you think is to have that kind of continual research that has been done to identify you know, what, you know, maybe potentially could be the next spice and tries to kind of, you know, to prevent what happened with spice occurring with a new drug?
Simone: Yeah and that's exactly what we need. I mean, it's - there's always a next thing that people are using. You know, young people generally and vulnerable groups, I suppose, are the first kind of discover that. And we need to be able to keep on top of it to be able to - to react positively.
Rob: Yeah and I think that was one of the rationales for this - is to try and identify anything that's emerging
Simone: Yeah definitely.
Rob: to identify your usual suspects or say vulnerable groups.
Simone: Yeah. So you know, definitely, I think we should be should be part of feeding into the information that you get, just in terms of an intelligence kind of a way. Obviously, we have a lot of young people across Greater Manchester, really. But also people are coming in and out of custody as well. And they are often the first people to find out about the new drugs or whatever that's coming out. And it would be great if we had somewhere that we could share that information with.
Rob: Are there any additional comments you wanted to make?
Simone: Or I guess just to say, Thanks, really, you know. I think it's easy within services like ours to kind of just think you work in a bit of a bubble, really, because you’re just so involved in the day to day stuff that you're doing. But you forget sometimes, I think, to look out - outside of that and think where can we get extra support from that's maybe not our general kind of go to in terms of maybe local drug and alcohol services and stuff like that. But making the links with you guys was really positive I think, in being able to access all that new intelligence and support and guidance and things. So, you know, that's just been really useful, so thank you.
Rob: Okay.
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Matt: Well, I'm pleased to say that I'm joined by Aisla Cuthill of the Big Change Society at Manchester Met. Ailsa can you tell us what the Big Change Society is?
Aisla Cuthill: Yeah, so the Big Change Society - we've basically done it from three different aims. So fundraising, raising awareness and getting more students to volunteer. And so we created it from the Big Change Manchester, which is the umbrella charity that distributes money to different charities in Manchester to help with homelessness. And so it basically, like, pays for practical items like building houses, making sure it's like a home rather than people just put into hostels every night, for travel, if they need to get like somewhere for a job interview, skills. So we just want to support the Big Change Manchester, so students more aware of like all of the issues that are going on.
Matt: You’re Chair of the of the Manchester Met part of the Big Change Society and you recently set up the branch yourself. Can you - can you say a little bit about what drove you to do that?
Ailsa: Last year I was kind of part of like the Big Change Society at Uni of Manchester. I was just like, Well, why isn't there one for Manchester Met. Like there's so many students and like, it's a very different group of people at Manchester Met, so like creative skills. So I thought like, why not collaborate? So we can use like everyone's skill. So like photography, creative writing, like literally, there's so much at Manchester Met. Yeah, we've basically just been trying to snowball it from there.
Matt: And how many students do you have now within the society here?
Ailsa: currently, there's about 20 to 25 people. We do need to get more people involved. So if anyone listening to this wants to like join then just join like the Facebook pages so Big Change Soc. Follow the Instagram. The more students that are involved the bigger impact we can have and like work with different charities reach more people so –
Matt: And what - what drove you personally to get involved with you know the broader project The Big Change Society?
Ailsa: So I'm from like quite small town, quite like a middle class town, so it's not - you don't see that much homelessness. So coming to Manchester it was a very like massive shock because it's quite hidden in the - the media and I was like,” Okay, why is there nothing being done?” like and then the more you look into, there is actually a lot being done. But there's definitely more that students could do and students are very in an isolated bubble. And I didn't really want to do that and because Manchester's such like a community anyway, I was like, I want to be part of like the bigger community rather than just a student.
Matt: The ethos of the Big Change Society is that you contribute to the organisation, even donate to the organisation, and they help people who have been sleeping on the streets with getting off the streets and accommodation, etc.
Ailsa: One of the big things with Big Change is they stress like it's your money, it's your choice what you want to do, but they kind of encouraged give to a charity or to give to the Big Change. So they can put it towards things that are practical in the long term. Whereas if you give money on the street, loads of people assume it's going to drugs or alcohol, but actually, that's not the case. Like people might use it for other things like getting a bit of food. But if they go to a shop, they're not going to different centres and charities. So they're not actually building that connection. So it's kind of a short term solution if you give change on the street. So many people who are on the streets, they want help. One of the best things to do is actually just go up and talk to the person and say "hi" even just have like a little chat being like, “Oh, are you doing alright, like I was just walking past”. Actually find out what they want because a lot of people - it's like dental services, they might have a medical issue that they need get sorting out, but they're not really sure how to do that. Like there's so many different things that people on the streets are actually looking for. And I think that's what like Big Change needs to do is actually raise awareness of that because like so many people in Manchester have great intentions, but actually to make a long term change and actually make an impact one of the things you can do is find out what people on the streets are looking for.
Matt: And there's definitely you know, great potential with our with our really large student body at Manchester Met, I think for you to, you know, for this society that you're setting up to really take flight.
Ailsa: Yeah, yeah, definitely. Like literally anyone can get involved. We're trying to set up this project telling stories from homeless people's perspective. So kind of like if you do creative writing like that might be something you want to get involved with, literally any subject there's definitely a way that you can use those skills in the society to actually help with homelessness. My course is education – that’s made me think as well more about why people are on the streets? Like are children who've lived in poverty more likely to go on the streets? For children with like, different learning disabilities, are they more likely to be on the streets or be homeless? Or like, What is the reason for that? It's definitely related to my course. And I feel like it could be related to any course really.
Matt: Can you tell us a little bit more about the events you've put on in the past
Ailsa: So in the past, we've done talks on like different taboo topics. So women on the streets, how being on your period is really difficult. LGBTQ issues within homelessness. The main idea behind the talks is to kind of get rid of those misconceptions about homelessness where everyone's like they’re all drug addicts, alcoholics, this is why they're on the street, but actually, it could happen to anyone. So one of the girls that came to talk she was 18 and doing her A levels when she became homeless. She's a student now. Yeah, and it was due to family breakdown. So It can literally be anything. And that's what we want to get across and break down those misconceptions.
Matt: Fantastic. And you're obviously very open to any students who want to get in touch with you to be part of the society. Yeah, you just let them know one more time how best to sort of get engaged with the society.
Ailsa: Yeah. And so if you go onto the Facebook page, that's probably the easiest way. So you can go onto Big Change Soc, like the page, drop me a message.
Matt: Okay. Ailsa, thanks so much for your time.
Ailsa: Thank you.
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Matt: So what have we learned from today's episode? Well, the issues surrounding homelessness are complex and multifaceted, particularly in relation to the use of psychoactive substances, such as spice by vulnerable groups. As our experts have said, solving these issues is a challenge that researchers at Manchester Met are trying to meet. We need joined up thinking it seems involving all of the stakeholders so that we can make a positive change, be that the treatment providers, local authorities, the government or the police. As Rob, Paul and Simone have mentioned we need a multidisciplinary response to tackling homelessness and providing the assistance that vulnerable groups need. The recommendations put in place in Manchester could be the model for other cities to follow. And initiatives like the Big Change Society are driving a community response that we can all get involved with.
Thank you for listening. Don't forget to follow us on Twitter for future podcast updates. You can find us at @MMU_RAH. For more information on all the recession events we discussed in this episode, please go to the RAH! website for full links. Tune back in soon for some more episodes.
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Lucy Simpson: This episode of the RAH! podcast was presented by Matt Foley, produced and edited by Lucy Simpson, and mixed by Julian Holloway